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 AG: So you're your own boss these days.
NBS: I never want to get in the boss/employee situation again.
AG: A lot of people never work for themselves, and to do it in New York City is a tremendous achievement. Tell me about how you got to New York and became independent career-wise.
NBS: I fuckin' had enough and decided that it [moving to New York] was worth losing everything for... car, Chicago, home, job, et cetera. I just wasn't happy. That's how drastic changes happen in my life—when I just can't take it anymore.
AG: You decide to go 180 degrees, just drop the status quo and completely change?
NBS: Yep. That first visit to New York changed everything about me. I saw that there was a world out there that I wanted to be a part of that instant. (Pause.) When I came out here for that first week, I had no plans of moving here... it seemed impossible to me... not even an option. Then, on the last day of that week, I started a list of everything I was willing to give up to get here. And the list was long. When I got back [to Chicago], I knew I had no choice.
AG: You talk about your love of New York all the time on your site. Are you scared that it will ever lose its luster and you'll want another drastic move?
NBS: I'm getting that feeling again, but this time it's just about moving to Brooklyn and leaving Queens and never returning. But no, there's so much about New York to enjoy. I don't see how I could get tired of it... unless I decide that I want peace and quiet.
AG: Well, you dont seem a rural type. You are bona fide city boy. And there aren't many cities in the world that can compete.
NBS: No... maybe when I'm older. Burroughs left the city and lived in a little house in the South with his cats. I can see getting really old and doing the same.
AG: He also went crazy, didn't he?
NBS: Yeah. Not totally, though. He was still functional enough to entertain guests and enjoy life.
AG: Were you immersed in JesusDressUp.com and NormalBobSmith.com when you got to New York?
NBS: Yes. I had like 8 goals when I moved here: Jesus Dress-Up magnets, starting my freelancing business, creating more stuff to entertain people on my site, pursuing my own art... figuring out new ways to make money...
AG: Well, anything left on the list that you haven't accomplished yet?
NBS: No... all those things I got done. I have a newer, longer list now.
AG: Want to share?
NBS: Number one right now is my internet talk show—NoBS Radio. Been working, eating, and breathing that these last couple weeks. The movie, Bob Smith USA, promoting that. And the new Christmas Jesus Dress-Up magnets that I hope to have for the holidays. I'm gonna take a chance on that and slip the Grinch in there.
AG: Who would've thought all this came from Jesus Dress-Up? Let's talk about that, since that's where it all started. What's the story?
NBS: I drew it back in 1990, when I was in art school and fuckin' around. I was in my room and feeling like I wanted to create something fun and anti-Jesus, and the idea had been there floating around for some time... but I finally felt like I was ready to draw it, and draw it right. I remember copying one of those color forms of Marilyn Monroe that I had. I remember sketching it out at my desk and really being into it... then, as I was inking it, my mom came into my room without my knowing... looked over my shoulder at what I was drawing... and she screamed, "Bobby, No!!" And I said something like "Oh, Mom, it's just a drawing" as she fled my room. It was then that I knew I had something good.
AG: I guess your parents were at least a little spiritual?
NBS: No. (Pause.) Very fucking religious. Jim-and-Tammy-Faye-Bakker Christian.
AG: Ah! Were you ever on board with their side or always a skeptic?
NBS: Hmm. I was a believer, that's for sure, but never a fundy. I was all over the place, though: believing in the Bible, then not believing ALL the Bible but still believing in God, then believing none of it and still believing in God. That's when things started to go horribly wrong.
I think it was when I was in Chicago, sitting with my brother and having a cup of coffee at Starbucks, and he said: "You didn't exist before you were born; why would you exist after you die?" That like blew my mind for some reason. It was so simple... and it really was a punch in the face to me, that one sentence. Because he was right, and I was going to die. I was 29.
AG: Did it make you sad?
NBS: I started to get really depressed. I even started to fill with fear. I was afraid of the dark and closed-in places. It reminded me of not existing—it was very, very frightening—and also being so alone. I talked to a friend about it, and she suggested I see a therapist.
AG: Did you?
NBS: Yes. I went and had like four visits. Hated it so much. I hated everything about it. She was not a good one. And I realized I knew exactly what changes I needed to make. Three simple things:
Number one, I needed a girlfriend. Number two, I needed to be doing art for myself again (working at my job had put me off doing art for art's sake). Number three, I needed to accept that I was wrong about God and tell the world about the fucking truth I'd accepted.
With Jesus Dress-Up stuffed away in my sketchbook, I'd heard about Dreamweaver [a web-design application] and Lynda Weinman's easy-to-understand instructional book on how to make a dress-up page in Dreamweaver. I knew it was the perfect platform to base everything I wanted to accomplish on.
I ran to the theater down the street on Clark to see The Filth and the Fury [a documentary about The Sex Pistols], and upon leaving that movie, walking home at like 1 am, I knew it was time.
AG: So the Filth and the Fury was a catalyst...
NBS: I got home, pulled out the art, and made JesusDressUp.com in one night. Then I went to work the next day and gave the link to my co-workers. They sent it to their friends, and they sent it to their friends... and in a month's time, I had gotten 150,000 visits. And the next month, it was 250,000 visits. And it just kept going. The emails were fucking fantastic!
I remember racing home after work, running to my computer, putting my favorite hate letters on a disk, racing to Kinko's to print them out (even laughing to myself at what I was going to respond) and spending hours at Starbucks on Clark and Belmont, writing responses and posting them that evening on my site. God, I fucking love that so much—telling every fuckin' imbecile who emailed me what they could do with their bullshit beliefs.
AG: How much has that process changed? There are two issues I immediately think of: a lot more responses to field, and a lot more repeated responses. Does responding to hate mail feel like work now?
NBS: No. I still love it. I really do. And I I try not to repeat myself. There's lots and lots and lots of ways to respond to hate mail. I just decided that I could say whatever the fuck I wanted. As long as it was either funny, or heartfelt, it'd be entertaining for people to read, no matter how much hate mail I got. I got one from a Pastor Chris Dawes that I was dying to respond to today, and I filled two-and-a-half pages from just him saying, "Why did you do this? What's the point? Why would you make fun of the crucifixion of Jesus? I don't understand. Don't you think you are being really intolerant of those of us that are Christ followers? It really saddens me. Could you please explain? Pastor Chris." And I wrote something that's both funny and original... original even still.
AG: It seems surprising that, even with their final justice of the afterlife, so many Christians are so "saddened" and "outraged" at you. What do you really think of devout Christians? Do you respect people who can logically present their opposing Christian view?
NBS: I don't think there's any way to "logically" present a Christian view... unless you say, "I know it's all bullshit. I just believe it to feel better."
AG: What do your parents say now?
NBS: Hmm. My parents say this now: "I know you don't believe, but we're still gonna pray for you." To which I say, "I believe that you're prayin for me!" And we both have a little chuckle together about that.
AG: Do they understand how big Jesus Dress-Up is?
NBS: Yeah, I think they know now. Ever since Neil Abramson brought the cameras into their home and filmed Thanksgiving dinner for his movie, they have an idea of how big it got. My parents (God bless 'em) are very, very good to me.
AG: How did you and Neil Abramson meet? Is he a fan?
NBS: Yes. He had been to my site before, and when he contacted me, he not only wanted to film me, but also wanted me to be creatively involved in the film.
AG: And it's gotten great reviews. Are you happy with how you were portrayed?
NBS: Yes. I fucking love the film—I am so fucking proud of it! And I know how fuckin' lucky I am to have actually gotten in a funny and entertaining film. Everyone I know who's seen it really loves it. I come off as a nerd. I don't mind. And I got some great one-liners that I'm proud of. It's fun to see a whole audience laugh at a joke you tell on screen!
AG: The film examined the lives of seven very different Americans named Bob Smith. Would you like to hang out with any of the other featured Bobs?
NBS: No. (Pause.) Wait... I'd like to meet the old-junk-collector Bob. He's funny as fuck. But I think that after one day with him, I'd never want to be with him again.
AG: Let's get back to Jesus Dress-Up magnets for a second. Urban Outfitters stopped carrying the item in US stores after much protest, but they continue to sell other products that poke fun at Christianity and Jesus. What do you think is it about Dress-Up that's so offensive to these protesters?
NBS: The other stuff they sell doesn't shove it up Jesus' ass. My magnets really are blunt. Dressing Him up as Satan is the fuckin' clincher.
AG: So, subtler is less injuring to the devout?
NBS: Oh, a believer can wear a Jesus is my Homeboy shirt and still function in Christian America under the guise that "Jesus is a cool dude."
AG: Are you anticipating a huge backlash when you launch your Christmas version this year? I mean, it is Christ's birthday.
NBS: Hmm. Yes. I'll be shocked if Urban picks them up, even though I was told they might if I nix the Satan costume. But I know I'll have a lot of smaller stores who'll want them... and I also know they'll sell well off the site.
AG: The original product is still carried at UK Urban Outfitters. What does that tell you about America's culture versus England's?
 NBS: I constantly get emails from people in the UK who laugh at how hung up on religion we are over here.
AG: So they're a little looser about the religion-mocking?
NBS: Yes, from what I hear. They do sell well over there.
AG: Did you have any trouble finding people to produce the magnet sets or any other materials because of religious differences?
NBS: Yes! I had to go to China to get them done. Every American die-cut magnet producer wouldn't even come near it.
AG: So, if anyone wonders why it's not American-made, you're saying it is in fact a necessity to go overseas.
NBS: All because of the content.
AG: You can promote them all you want on your upcoming radio show. How can listeners tune in?
NBS: I'm not sure how I'm going to distribute the show yet. I was originally thinking I'd just make it downloadable from my site, but there's a chance I might be able to get it streamed on Freethought Radio. I'd really like that. Hellbound Alleee has been my introduction to this whole Internet radio thing.
AG: What do you plan to provide as content? Will you have guests?
NBS: Well, I'm gonna have sections like Hate Mail, where we read and comment on stupid hate mailers, and the Love Diaries. I have quite a story to tell about my last girlfriend, biggest mistake I ever made—
AG: Really? Care to share?
NBS: Yes, it was a huge disaster. I actually had to leave the state to get away from her. That's something I'm saving for the show.
AG: What else?
NBS: Some music, and I want to get a phone number people can call to order magnets, but really it'll be to get funny messages from Christians.
AG: I'm sure everyone who listens will learn more about who you are, but I would like to close by asking some questions on behalf of those who oppose you so they might better understand you. Is that okay?
NBS: You know it!
AG: Since so much of your life is occupied by maintaining a website and products that directly address religion, God, and other philosophical issues, how much free time do you spend contemplating your existence and importance in the universe?
 NBS: I spend probably too much time thinking about it. But, strangely, I don't sit and talk about it when I'm with friends... and if it comes up with them, it's usually them who bring it up. But when I'm alone responding to a hate mailer, or writing my comic, I am dwelling on the subject, sometimes to the point where I wish I was retarded so I didn't have to think about any of it ever.
AG: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?
NBS: Hmm. Yes. Artist, philosopher, complaint department manager. And toy maker!
AG: So what's your take on life on Earth?
NBS: First of all that I'm lucky to even be here. And then to be here and to be healthy, creative, and smart enough to piss on everyone's parade.
AG: Who do you admire?
NBS: Hmm. Rollen Stewart.
AG: The rainbow-wig guy?
NBS: Yes! He was the best! He was a fucking fanatic! He took it all the way—
AG: Wasn't he a Christian?
NBS: —even locking himself in a hotel room near an airport, phoning the news, and saying he was going to start shooting at airplanes if they didn't interrupt the national news with readings from the Bible! He's in jail now. But he did that shit again and again... brought explosives to a football game and demanded to have air time. That's fuckin' balls. That's a hero if I ever heard of one!
AG: So is he crazy, or was he just making a point about religious fanaticism?
NBS: Oh, he's fucking crazy. HE WANTED TO SHOOT AT PLANES FROM A HOTEL WINDOW FOR GOD!!
AG: If you could get one thing across to religious fanatics as a whole, what would it be?
NBS: That they're teaching bad lessons and harming others with their views on life. And that they're living a lie.
AG: Finally, what do you do on Sundays while other people are at church?
NBS: I make little children cry by doing nasty things to Jesus in public view.
 
Visit the official Normal Bob Smith website for more information.
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